This is for Karen..

..she keeps asking me how I feel about the political issues


I do not think abortion should be legal.

I do not support the death penalty.

I believe we need to get out of Iraq.

I believe our government needs to consider the people living in poverty more.

I do not believe in federally funded stem cell research.

I support Fare-Trade not free trade.

I support some form of universal health care.

I do not support gay marriage.

I believe there should be more tax incentives to support job creation here in the US.

I believe the US government needs to do more to fight the AIDS pandemic.

I believe something needs to be done to help inner city schools.

I believe America needs a humble president, one who is not motivated by fear or anger but by love and compassion. I know, that may be impossible, probably is, but I can want that.

I believe we need a president that represents all of America, not just the part I agree with. I also believe we need a president that will listen and does not have his feet so firmly planted in traditions and party politics that he can not see past them to the people he is supposed to be serving.

I know it's crazy that I, a long time Republican would go so far left. What's even crazier is my mom who loved Clinton and Gore and was furious when Bush won over him, she is voting for McCain. I honestly never thought I'd see the day. But here we are.

Sometimes I just sit and think "you know, I should just be like most people I know and go with the Republi-Christian flow" but then I look at the issues and I agree with 23 out of 26 listed Obama Campaign Issues and only 10 out of 17 listed McCain Campaign Issues.

My agreement or disagreement with these issues is rooted in my Christian beliefs. I am pro-life but now for me that means more then just abortion, it includes the death penalty, the war and our value of all life not just an unborn child but also of a mother dieing of AIDS in Africa or a child being sold into the sex trade. I have to decide which Candidate represents my values more, and right now it looks like that would be Obama.

BUT I still do not know if I will push the button for him on election day. I may do what Shane Claiborne suggested in "Jesus for President" which is to find a homeless person or an illiterate poor person who has never been able to vote and ask them who they would vote for if they could and then cast their vote. I also may not vote at all, I just don't know yet.


Anonymous said…
Thank you, and well said. I just knew you had changed on some things, and wanted to know about it. I'm not crazy about the choices either. Things have definitely grayed. May God look past all of our ignorance and do what is right for His purposes. Thank you so much for giving me the title, too.
Donna said…
I don't believe the government can successfully "consider people living in poverty more," or "do more to fight the AIDS pandemic." Throwing money at something does not help the core problem. The U.S. public education system is a prime example of this.

If every church was like Healing Place Church, I truly think this world would be a better place. Very few churches have the amount of outreach that HPC does. Pastor Dino is preaching on Sundays, but y'all are preaching Monday-Saturday.

As far as Africa, you know I feel as desperate as you do, but again, that's not what the government is for. Read this interesting article by a Kenyan economics expert talking about Western aid...,1518,363663,00.html

I do think the government should put a limit on the U.S. patents for life-saving drugs like the AIDS drugs, but my Husband has made a pretty good argument against that one...

Anonymous said…
Carole the Liberal. Wow.

Well, I've become more apolitical over time. Basically, I lean more Libertarian than Rep/Dem. And I have a real problem with straight-ticket voting or the polarizing of groups of people around one political party.

White Christians and the Republican party being one example. African-American Christians and the Democratic party being another. Young people and their fascination with cool guy Obama being another. Think, don't be a lemming. For that, I applaud you, Carole.

That said... I disagree with you on several items, mainly because I've come to believe that government is pretty much the worst mechanism for administrating all but a few exceptions (nat'l defense being one). That's the Libertarian coming out in me. To Donna's point, the best avenue for relieving the burden of the poor is for (1) the gov't to stay out of the way and to encourage charitable giving, and (2) for individuals to GET INVOLVED. Give time, money, or both.

The last thing the church should be doing is shoving off the commandment of tending to the poor to the bureaucratic nightmare in Washington. btw, I'm also tired of Christians who define themselves as Americans as much if not more so than as Christians. I wish every Christian could travel to Africa or Eastern Europe or poorer Latin America and visit a church.

On the topic of universal health care....

Please, no. There is already a health care safety net in this country: Medicare/Medicaid/charity hospitals. The gov't runs those. How are those working out? Now imagine if that is the only choice all but the extremely rich are given.

I've been to Norway where the locals will rage on and on and on about their great universal healthcare system and how it is basically "free". Then you delve deeper and they admit they have to wait 3 months for an appt (basic economics.... if costs go down, demand goes up... even for something like healthcare). It is also partly due to a shortage of doctors because they do not have the incentive to make the living they can in other places like the US.

I think the bigger problem with healthcare costs are legal and insurance issues. I'm tired of the multi-billion dollar punitive damage settlements of which 30% go to the lawyer who was able to exploit the holes in our legal system. On the backend of that, everyone's health care costs skyrocket to pay for it.

On the topic of the war....

American went into Iraq with Bush telling them that it would not be a short-term thing, yet here we are all wringing our hands as the years roll past. I'm not sure I like all of the reasons for going to war as much in hindsight, but consider this....

(and relayed to me by a friend currently serving in Iraq)

There has not been one successful act of terrorism of note carried out on American soil since 9/11. I have to think that is in large part due to American troops keeping these ring leaders on the run around the world (including Iraq and Afghanistan).

And, please slap anyone who compares Iraq to Vietnam. America has lost 4,000 soldiers over 6 years in Iraq and won occupation in the process. Compare that to 70K soldiers dying in Vietnam over 10 yrs in a war America never got close to winning.

On the topic of AIDS....

It is tempting to mandate that a big pharma company hand over their miracle AIDS drugs for free to Africa out of guilt or some sense of obligation. But, that is a slippery slope. Take away big pharma's incentive to make money (hey to Hillary), and you are left with big pharma getting into other markets where their billions of dollars sunk into R&D can hopefully make them a profit. There are other ways for the US to pony up some subsidies, or for African nations to pay or barter for these drugs. (Africa is one of the richest areas in the world in terms of natural resources.) I agree more should be done, but like I said at the beginning I'm always skeptical when we want the gov't to do it.

To me, the biggest issue facing America is not really on the radar in these discussions: energy. My #1 platform issue if I were running for President would be to lay out a plan for encouraging alternate energy (solar, electric, etc). There are some easy things American can do in the next 10 years based on CURRENT technology, but the gov't is afraid to irritate the auto or oil industries by encouraging the alternatives.

Off soapbox....
Anonymous said…
oh, and for the record I'm most likely going to vote for McCain. (lesser of available evils)

I usually vote Libertarian as a protest vote, but I don't think I can spare that this time around.

I'd vote for Hillary before I'd vote for Obama. His views coupled with his ability to persuade scares me bigtime....
Carole Turner said…
Dang Clyde That's quite a "comment".

I can't even try to answer all of it, nor would I in the blog world cuz' it would just take too long to type but I respect your opinion.

I do need to make a couple comments.

Public funds paid for the research that resulted in the AIDS treatments that currenly exist, public funds not profits from the sale of the drugs, this is documented so THOSE patens should be released so generics can be made. Guilt, shame, whatever is needed, get the available drugs to the dieing people.

Yes, Africa is rich in natural resources, natural resources that have been raped and almost depleted by starving Africans and wealthy nations like ours who want those resources. This statement is also historically documented.

Right now Ethiopia is on the verge of a Famine worse then the one we saw in the 80's. 70% unemployment, life expectancy of 40 years and very few natural resources to live on. I will never support a government asking them to pay what they do not even have, to jet flying, limo driving, millionaire drug companies for life saving drugs.Especially since the public funded the research. Yes, I know it's a slippery slope, Drug comapanies tell us if they release the paten then furture research may be jeoordized by lack of funds, so lets just allow, litterally allow millions of people to die right now. It's not ture for one thing, public funding is still there and MOST research is done with public funds so we can avoid situations like this.
It really is a hot button for me because while parents are dieing children are being Orphaned, 15 million AIDS Orphans around the world. These kids don't have AIDS their parents were killed by AIDS. Ben Rogers in Swaziland that works with Children's Cup says it is so strange to see an entire population of only children and old people, there are no parents. I know your heart for Orphans, so please I am not directing this at you. I just have spent a lot of time researching this AIDSs Orphans issue and it really gets me very upset at our western mindset. Thank God for people like Bono, very public, loud, famous people that make us look at these things, make our government look at it.

ok, now on to other less emotional issues :-) I do agree that government can not do all we want done in the world or should. I do absolutley believe the church HAS to step up. But I have posted several other post on here stating the reasons I like Obama. Sure, there are things about him that I really don't like, but like I said in my post, if I have these two guys to chose from and I look extensivly into their records, campain issues, personal lives, etc, I will have to chose Obama over McCain...if I vote at all.

WOW I think I have as many words as you Jimmy Clyde, but yours is better written.

Rock ON!
Anonymous said…
I'm voting for Billy Clyde. I agree with everything he said. It scares me in a very personal way when people want the US government to "do more" for Africa or whoever. We (Brad and I) don't work for a corporation that is unlikely to go out of business. My children's ability to eat is directly and immediately effected when the government spends more. I'm not being dramatic. It's that direct. I feel for the African orphans, but Bradley, Andrew, Evan, Honey and Isabelle need a house and some electicity. I have to take care of what God has so obviously given me before I can spend other people's money to help others. It's very bleak right now for us. Let the Church and other good people of the world give their own money. Please don't take anymore from us. It is killing us. Peace.
Anonymous said…
Also, you may not want Universal Healthcare with Evangeline's need for insulin. I have a friend who lived in New Zealand the last few years, and getting her son's medicines that he is also life dependant on was a nightmare. They came back to the US for that and other reasons.
Anonymous said…
What are we going to do with Carole Sue the Liberal. Yikes!
Watch out world! Love, your Liberal Conservative going to vote for McCain Mother.
Carole Turner said…
I know you may think I am making an uneducated choice but I am not. I actually research what I believe.

I wish I had never mentioned politics, I knew it was risky but I really do think I wont be able to post about it again. I hate disagreeing with my friends, my real friends like you Jimmy and you Karen and actually many other people I know but again, I pray, I research, I read and I have lived on the side of your views for over 20 years so I absolutley know all the arguments you present, I just now have a different perspective.
Carole Turner said…
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said…
Well, I'm sorry I drug you in to it. I don't love you for your mind, Carole. It's your hips. Don't worry about disagreeing. The truth is usually in the space between. But if you are going to ask a homeless person who to vote for, please ask me. We are teetering there with this horrible economy. I realize I'm literate, but you'll have to forgive me for that. ;)
Donna said…
CaroleCarole, isn't that one reason people blog, to discuss things?

As long as people are respectful, it's all good. You shouldn't regret bringing up politics. It's a subject you like to discuss, and discussion is healthy - it makes people think.

Do you think "lesser" of us or Karen for the way we believe? No. (hope not, at least :) And the same with us. You're still Carole - now you're just Liberal Carole. ;) ;) ;)

I haven't seen anything specific that you've posted about Obama that you really like. Being black, good looking, kind, and articulate just doesn't cut it for me. Just because he's likable doesn't mean I'll vote for him. So gimme some meat about him. Carter was likable, a Christian, and he had great compassion. But he was a lousy president, in my opinion.

So give your readers more specific reasons to vote for him if you feel strongly about him as a candidate.

Donna said…
P.S. I know you're not voting for him because he's black, good looking, kind, and articulate - you're a thinker and you've done your homework - but I feel like a lot of young people are going to vote for him simply for the above reasons and have no idea what he's about. Same with Hillary - women want her in office mostly because she's a woman.

Anonymous said…

I respect your opinion. Just make sure what you see as "documented" isn't coming from websites like

As for America raping Africa of its natural resources... am I to feel obligated if my neighbor sells me his last skillet and he is left with nothing to cook in?

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